That is very cool.

Plousia:

Not hard to understand at all. Same argument could be made about any kind of media. Having a government decree what is acceptable and not is patently undemocratic. But a person, in this case me, arguing that something is unacceptable and that it's promotion and dissemination is disturbing is just an opinion of one person. sy wtchng tht mn d lk tht s vyrstc brdrng n th bscn nd tht Mrk's lnkng t t cmpnds tht. Sm gfy drctry f lnks, msng nd msclln prvds n cntxt.

Win:

You're absolutely wrong. I've said in any number of posts on this thread, that the story should be outed, that an account of the incident should be made public, that the police are clearly if not simply over-reacting. I find videos depicting the death of a man being posted on the internet disturbing.

s Fx Nws yr bgmn? S 'm thr n yr sd r 'm mrchng t th mrk br lls? 'm thr wth y, r gnst y? Wh snds lk Fx Nws nw?

Cnsrshp s gvrnmntl. 'm pntdly gnst th gvrnmnt f Cnd's cnsrshp f ths vd. t ws cprcs ct nt n kpng wth dmcrtc scty nd shld hv fr rchng cnsqncs fr ths rspnsbl. By th sm tkn dn't thnk lk-ls n th wb shld b prvy t th rthr sd nd trrbl dth f ths pr mn smply bcs " hv th rght!" Y d hv th rght bt yr mpls strks m s nthng bt wrng.

"Ppl lk Grrtt" h d gt vr yrslf.

Bcs thnk t's rprhnsbl t shw th tsrng dth f mn 'm Sn Hnnty? Tht's mbclc. Why nt smply skp t cllng m Nz nd cmpltly mbrc th ntrnt strtyp?

nfrmtn wnts t b fr nd ll tht ntrnt flg-wvng s ll wll nd gd. Sttng t yr dsk, jmpng n "drctry f wndrfl thngs" nd clckng n vd whr mn gts shckd t dth s lthsm nd prrnt. Tht hs nthng t d wth pltcs, frdm f spch r ny thr strw mn rgmnts y wnt t tss t thr.

&86 Powers:

Ignorant? No.

In both the CBC stories I saw
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/11/14/bc-tasermother.html

and

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/11/14/bc-taservideo.html

Neither of which talk about the mother wanting this video shown to the public. Should it have been suppressed by the RCMP? Of course not and those responsible should be held to account.

She wanted the video not to be confiscated and the facts of the case obscured. hghly dbt sh wntd t pstd fr th crs t wtch hr sn d.

Tensegrity:

It's interesting that I took the time to actually put this in it's own seperate line in the hopes of emphasis.

"I'm not going to assume you'd do nothing. I'd hope you do something. I'd even challenge you to do so."

I do hope you do something positive with what you've seen. Sincerely. There's no sarcasm here, no eye-rolling, no hate. I hope you do something useful and constructive after watching a video of a man tasered to death by law enforcement. Simply ingesting material and not responding to it, especially graphic and vile material, is, at best, apathetic.

I don't judge your personal and moral character by anything except your words here. What you write does form an impression. I don't know you in your walking around life, I don't know your name or location or affiliation. I don't even know if your snarked response was genuine or simply a laugh. I know what you wrote and that is to what I respond.

I think many of the posts on BB are informative, interesting and amusing. It's interesting that when I raise an objection to one I'm simply told to shove off.

Teresa:

Next, let me get this straight: the video clip is too awful for decent people to watch, but reporting the event is sensationalism?

If you're talking about posting the video link on BB I'd counter saying that posting that a link is not "reporting". Any more so than handing an article clipping to a friend is reporting.

The question, in my mind, is could the CBC have reported on the story without that tape? The answer to me is yes. That would have been a more responsible and humane thing to do than posting the video of a man's death.

Does the public interest in this story outweigh the right of the family to have privacy or the right of the man to have dignity? I just don't think so.

Tensegrity:
One of the "wonderful" things about the internet is the wide availability of primary source material so that everyone can make informed judgments on their own without filtering from official sources.

Don't take that away from me, bro.

Just out of curiousity, now that you've seen that video, what are you going to do about it?

Are you writing a letter to the RCMP? Are you going to join Copwatch or even join your local police/community organization and become active in building better relationships between those who police your town and those who live in it? What has being exposed to that video done to better you or cause you to better the world?

I'm not going to assume you'd do nothing. I'd hope you do something. I'd even challenge you to do so.

As for your "right", you're absolutely correct. No government should stop you form viewing that. I'd put my money where my mouth is and donate to your legal fund if you were arrested for viewing it. It's not the legal right to view that scene that I'd call into question, t's th jdgmnt f ppl wh'd pplrz t nd dssmnt t, spclly n sch csl frm s ths. t's nt s f ths ws scrnd fr MPs r hstd n st by th mn's fmly cllng fr jstc, t's n blg whr y cn "fvrt!" t r skp dwn nd rd bt Wrhmmr bldngs.

You have every right to view it, nd hv vry rght t qstn yr dsr nd ntrst n dng s.

Mark,

I do think it's interesting, that rather than addressing your responsibility as an editor for posting a video showing the painful death of a man you're simply calling those calling your to account "insulting" and our comments "ugly". Anyone who calls your conduct into question should just "go away" because they're "deplorable". That's bordering on childish.

Why post this video on BB? Is it to further the debate on tasering as a valid means of subduing people? Does this man's family and friends need to know that the jaded eyes of people surfing some blog have watched the last horrible moments of their loved one? You've simply exposed this sad and ugly event to a wider audience.

Feel free to simply write me off as insulting you, hating on you or being a troll. I think a number of your posting demonstrate a real lack of empathy and compassion.

Mark,

So your response to me (filter you out) and to any other critique (that you don't have to click the link) is "You don't have to look."? That's a bit weak sauce.

You've posted a video of a man dying to be gaped at by the curious, surrounded by posted about modding your gadgets and curios about furries. If your only reply to that is "Well, you don't have to look" I think that speaks volumes about your character.

And I don't need an RSS to see your name at the top of an article and skip it, thanks.

I think it's really disgusting for you to link to this Mark. Of all the editors on here I think you show the least amount of decency when it comes to posts. I remember your joking post about a "prison beauty pageant".

A clearly disturbed (at least at the time) is dead. I don't think that needs to be compounded by a bunch of people casually surfing the net gawking at his demise.

The CBC should be ashamed of itself for posting the original video to start with really. What purpose does that serve beyond a prurient interest? This isn't Lt. Colonel Nguyen shooting a dissident, I highly doubt the people behind those tasers meant to kill, or ever really harm, that man.

Regardless, I think one of the most important questions when it comes to blogs is "What is the source? What is your standing for making that statement?" Alot of blogs serve as little more than portals for the journalistic work of others. It's hard to take a blog seriously as a replacement for "old journalism" when the site is filled with links to the NY Times and AP services.

The best advice I was ever given as a young and somewhat radical individual was to be very polite when interacting with cops. It came from an ACLU spokesman who gave a talk at my school.

"Yes Officer, no officer. Am I being arrested? I'd like to speak to my attorney please?" That's about all you NEED to say to a cop.

Debating your ticket won't help, fighting physically, won't help, threatening to sue/shoot/smooch won't help. Get to court, get a lawyer, go to the press afterward.

The ACLU's lawyer put it best "You can't win on the street, you can only lose more and more."

I think what you really mean is, "Face to face interaction with other people is the best way to live." Which I happen to disagree with. It's one way to live, and I'm not convinced it's the best one. I prefer a more introverted, introspective route, personally.

Then, with no sense of cruelty or snark, I really think you have a serious problem Nonesuch. Not trying to score debate points or make you feel bad or be an ass, but I'd seriously reflect on what you expressed there and realize just how disturbing that sounds.

Introspection is a fine and good thing, but between solitude and face to face interaction the latter is always the best choice, on so many levels. I just can't get away from that one, sorry.

Jack Said:

Reality is always the better choice.

100 odd posts of exhorting that very simple, very core idea. Oddly, you used "geek" culture examples to prove this fine point. You'd think that people who've seen "The Matrix", Star Trek and read a bit of Philip K. Dick would agree whole-heartedly.

Reality is always the better choice. And yes, WoW is a "real game" but as a simulation of actual things (conversing, exploring, creating, adventures) it has all the "reality" of a cartoon.

As I said, it's a very complex game. Don't pretend to dictate to me what WOW is and isn't.

Sitting in a chat room and talking with an avatar is complex? I suppose that AIM is a rich and varied tapestry of fantastical delights.

You've misrepresented me as hating all video games over and over and I've responded that it's not true. Everquest (ahem...Evercrack?), EVE, SW:Galaxies, again, all defined parameters in which you get to play. Swimming in a shallow pond, playing someone else's variation.

As for the guitar, you're right. There is indeed an investment. 200 dollars for a good solid acoustic is what I paid. Good group classes will run you too, say 15 bucks a week. Oh and there's a world of accessories. Tuners, piks, capos, straps, cases, all running from cost-effective to pricey luxurious.

But at 4am, on a tuesday, I can pick any song I know the chords to, ANY and start picking a tune. Anything from "Rainbow Connection" to "I Wanna be your dog". And when I took the initiative, I started picking out my own tunes, strumming chords in variation, finding my own way to play.

I'm still a novice by every standard, but the possibilities are endless. I don't need servers, subscriptions, or even electricity to access something real and resonant.

Sorry Nonesuch. If you'd rather be clicking you can't tell me that's living.

Nonesuch:

You fall apart all over the place here.

First, I pointed out that chess and other games can have variation. WoW can't. When people tried to set-up independent servers they were shut down. There is one way to play WoW, no variation, no house rules, linear gaming, simple progression.

As for the suckers quote, I said it was clearly Blizzard's keen understanding of that idea at work. Do I think payin 14.95 a month to play WoW (plus the cost of the game, though I see they're giving that away now) is a mugs game? Oh yes. Do I think you're all gibbering idiots? No. The people at my job who buy lottery tickets whenver the jackpot goes over 100 million are getting played too, but at least they have a chance of winning some money.

A friend of mine works at a local tourist attraction selling photos. People spend 10 bucks on a photo that costs, including labor and ren, about 2 dollars. 80% profit for a cheap photo that doesn't even have the actual background, just a green screen. The company is raking in the cash. Are the people suckers? Oh yes. But they're not bad people. They pay my friend's bills, add to the economy and get a "memory". Course, I'd rather just bring a camera.

When Heart transplants are available for 200 dollar and undertaken by teams of Korean cardiac surgeons with little or no training...well...that just all falls apart there.

And again, it's not the rules of WoW that are my issue, it's the fact the rules confine, they don't expand or define. They create a track, a dog run of gaming. I'd rather run all over than from Level 1-70.

You think someone who plays a complex game has the same experience as everyone else who plays that game. You're wrong.

The "complexity" of WoW is something I find to be a dubious claim. It's a fairly simple system really, levelling up characters is so rote it can be done as a job (the multitude of services that offer to take you from rank amateur to beastly strong in a pre-set time are evidence of that. Everyone is playing to the same end, a higher level, a stronger character, more items. While you can vary your color, your quests, you are ultimately moving down the same path as anyone else. I asked it before, can you be the Orc who joins the Alliance? Can you change the power dynamics of the Horde? No, you are one of millions of players whom Blizzard has a very vested interest in keeping on the same path, keeping the machine running smoothly.

"Real Life" games allow for infinite variety. Variations on Chess, any number of sports, exist. There is only one WoW path.

I hesitate to mention it because I'm quite unfamiliar with it, but Second Life allows for users to create, design, grow and invent. That freedom is ultimately an expression of creativity lacking in WoW's linear levelling paradigm.

I don't like having people pretend it's not real. It tends to make them behave badly toward the people they meet there.

Again, this assumption that I and anyone arguing for WoW's immersive (consuming?) nature are looking to hurt the players. It's this nigh on knee-jerk reaction that anyone who does not completely invest in gaming is against it. You're either a Kotaku reader or Jack Thompson. You're either a beneveolent mentoring guild leader or someone screaming homophobic slurs on Halo 3. It's not that simple. All through this thread people popped up saying "We're not fat loser in mom's basement!". Over and over. I think a finer and less polarized, argument can be had. I don't think every WoW player is a "loser". I do think it's a waste of time that could be much better spent, absolutely. And in connection with the original piece, if WoW offered something of substance beyond simply whiling away hours the players would indeed hold a huge numerical block.

Someone upthread asked about my hobbies. I read, travel, book-bind, do some so-so photography. I also challenge myself to yearly learning competitions. Last year it was (ahem) guitar. This year it's Spanish. Next year it's mandolin.

Maybe I should step back and say that a few years ago I had three very sudden deaths in my family. My mother, cousin and aunt. All within a year of each other, Cancer, Suicide and Cancer being the causes respectively. I had family members who became very religious, some people fell off the wagon of sobriety (and have since climbed back on thankfully) and I took stock of my life.

I realized life is utterly and wonderfully finite. I decided to do with my time exactly what I wanted, rather than piss it away. So I challenged myself to learn new things every year, to accomplish goal like writing a novel, a non-fiction book, finding a better job, moving, getting in shape. I've been utterly STUNNED at (and it is so very cliche) what you can accomplish when you put you mind to it and stop thinking that oceans of time exist between you and the inneviabtle. Youth is wasted upon the young they say and I try to prove that wrong.

Like Rush Limbaugh, why is anyone giving any credence to anything this fool says? The man has no education, no life experience, has done nothing worth anything besides yammer on subjects he knows precious little about. Why is it surprising that he says something ridiculously offensive and stupid? Next item, Fred Phelps, still an ass.

Like many internet "conversations" this has begun to rapidly circle the bowl. Out have come the "I para-sail, tap-dance and design castle and login to WoW every day!" Lord Flashheart types. And the fact I mentioned guitar as another possible activity I've been reduced to "just sitting around my house alone playing guitar all day".

It's the blind posting dilemna, most people are only skimming the posts or picking what drives them to reply.

In conversation with friends last night I brought up this question about WoW. One friend of mine is a player, he introduced me to the game in fact. The summation of the conversation was as long as you confess it's a waste of time it's your time to waste really. But defending WoW as anything but a time-killing device, a boredom ban, just does not parse.

Nonesuch: You claim I've never played WoW. I had a level 13 undead warlock. I also tried out a friend's level 61 undead rogue, just to see what the advanced stages looked like. As for Terry Pratchett, if he is the model then the derivative nature of WoW is all the more clear to me. The man's writing is trash, his humor is trite and I wish I could get an edition of Good Omens that excised his drivel. Just awful.

I don't hate video games. I play them with surprising regularity. But like the smoker who knows that it's bad for you I know it's a waste of time. It's not a creative endeavor or productive activity in and of itself and to hold it up as such is simply silly.

One last thing, it was only in all of your defenses of gaming that the stereotype of the obese, light-allergic, mom's basement type gamer came up. I laid that out there as a charge. I've actually been kind of amused that you're all so tender to the touch on the topic that you assume any critique, question or criticism of gaming is either a biblical screed or someone accusing you of being Cartman calling out for more cheesy poofs.

It's not the complete wastes mired in their own filth that make me shake my head at the WoW time-hole. It's the perfectly productive people who zone out nightly and never get that book written, never learn another language and then, years later, bemoan the "lack of time".

Nonesuch:

I find it very sad that the mentality of gaming is so defensive that someone critiquing the over-indulgence and wastfulness of something like WoW is immediately in the same camp as Jack Thompson and book-burners and other zealots.

If you ask the question, "Is this worth it?" are you saying "shut down the servers! Sue Blizzard for the obesity epidemic! There ought to be a law!"?

Please.

Questioning the value and worth of Wow is just that, a question. Posited with a healthy degree of distaste for the drab and rather limited fantasy world of Azeroth. My God, even the name of the place is derivative of the demonic name Azazoth from Neil Gaiman. There's nothing new under the sun, but can't we at least have people try something new in the shade?

Nonesuch:

You worry that we're more interested in imagination than the real. I'm worried that you're so interested in the real, you've lost your imagination.

Not at all. But I prefer my own imagination and all the wonders and horrors it can cook up, to wandering around endlessly in someone else's rather slipshod immitation knock-off fantasy word.

When books are adapted to films it's often argued that the film "locks" the public's view of the characters and story. Can you picture Dorothy without Judy Garland's iconic grin?

WoW is entering another person (or team of persons) imagination. It's facinating at first, but soon you realize you're progressing along this person's preset path. Can you be the Orc who joins the alliance? Can you build a home or change the quests or find a new better compromise? Can you alter the world in any way other than the way which you are allowed? No. Blizzard even shuts down private individuals who attempt to host their own versions of Warcraft, ones where perhaps the rules change?

I enjoy visiting the imaginations of others in fiction, in art, in movies, music and even games. But dwelling there, toiling there, when I could be crafting my own worlds, my own adventures? Not for me, not at all.

As for WoW as a job training tool or, , a way of recruiting intelligence assets, I find that notion chilling. Imagine an intelligence officer "planning a raid" but this one is on an Afghan, not gnome, village. Like the generation of soldiers deployed around the American empire today, raised on violent video games and pumped up on blaring rage-filled music, the disconnect between what is "real" and fantasy can only lead to disaster.

But that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

Sorry to say, but all these examples of other "simulations" all differ from WoW in one real resepct, they're real.

Chess is as much about studying your opponent's face, body language as it is strategy. Sports as war simulation? That's quite clever, but they are in an of themselves enjoyment beyond their value as simulation. Simulation apes reality, it doesn't create a new space.

Your "team winning in the alterac valley" hasn't won anything. You haven't developed any skills beyond becomes better at WoW. You haven't learned to read a person's face, fake out a defense or play a song. You've accomplished a simple task outlined as lines of code. It's not reality. You've gained nothing more than any other person could from reading the manual and following insructions. The experience is not new, not unique, not special and frankly, dull. WoW moves you along a set series of paths to a goal. Linear, progressive thinking that rewards the devotion of time. It's not unlike labor really. Where is the improvisation? Where is the creativity? In names for guilds? In arranging digital costumes? WoW is little more than a series of tasks dressed up as play.

Many of you seem to be defending the fact you "have lives". Of course you do. Again, the bell curve suggests what differentiates you from the addict is quite significant. What I've posited, from the start, is what could you be doing instead of the game? If you really feel it's a valuable use of your time and energy, then you have nothing to "defend". Enjoy your game, but understand what you may be missing out on.

@nonesuch

Is WoW really fun? I'd counter that it's not. It's a simulation of enjoyment, not actual enjoyment.

Have you ever heard of "The Giant's Causeway"? It's an amazing geological phenomenon in Ireland created by underwater eruptions. It looks like the kind of fantastic alien landscape you'd see in WoW. Seeing pictures of it, even a wonderful 3D 360 simulation is not the same as walking it, feeling the wind on your face, the salt sea smell around you.

WoW is a simulation of activities people do all the time. Exploring, adventuring, wandering. It's dressed up in Tolkein-inspired drivel, but it's still simulating that experience. It's a shadow on the wall, a reflection.

Of course, you can argue that circumstance (ill health, poverty) can limit people's access to real world wonders, but in a world where blind men climb Everest and wheelchair athletes play basketball that doesn't hold alot of water for me.

Playing guitar is real. It's an actual thing, not a simulation thereof. Guitar Hero is a fun little distraction, but would you rather see musicians performing or people aping color-coded button on a screen? Would you rather see Brett Favre throw a perfect spiral or someone holding a joystick pretending to be Brett Favre pretending to throw a perfect spiral? Give me reality, please.

It gives me shivers that people are more interested in the shadow, the bytes, than they are in the real.

Just think on this, for every story of virtual conquest you have, or heap of gold you virtually raided, think of what could you have done in "the real world" with that time and energy? If your answer really is "Nothing I wouldn't trade for my time in WoW." Then...well I have no idea what to say to that.

I keep coming back to this discussion because it's really interesting to see the range of opinions and division.

Jack makes a really fine point about distraction versus immersion. I work with teens as a librarian and the difference between distracting games (bedazzled, alot of DS/PSP games) and immersion games is striking. The "social" aspect of immersive games is often sold as a positive, but the majority of chat is about the game itself, quests and such. Distraction games are limited and encourage you to play, win/lose and move on.

I do think video games as a medium can be very valuable and even sociable. I started DDR nights at our library because I saw kids at the mall playing and socializing more than I'd ever seen at other programs. We went from 10 kids to over 40 in one month. The kids take turns, hang out, talk, make friends and make for a great audience for book-talking and program promotion. And they're out in "meatspace" making friends, dancing and having fun. Most importantly, the program ends after an hour and half, they go outside, into the library, on with their lives. The notion of giving hours of my life over to a video game seems just wasteful of this brief little island of light between the gulfs of darkness.

The argument that "Hey, I'm a nuerosugeon, a published author and King of all Siam and I play World of Warcraft 40 hours a week!" falls kind of flat as that person is clearly at one end of the bell curve in many respects. You are not the norm by any means. Just the same as the person dying from thrombosis after 48 hour run isn't either. Most people simply lose hours at a time, chunks here and there, that would be better spent. When you're dying and look back upon your life, all you've done and not done I think more WoW player will wish they'd ticked more off their "to-do" lists.

A music teacher of mine once said "Practice a minute a day. Just say, every day I will practice for one minute." Of course he knew that once your got your Guitar out and actually started playing you'd go on for more than just a minute, but the point was committing your time to something. Why commit time to another person's fantasy when you could use that time to create your own?

The point of WoW is to take up as much of your time as possible. The more you play the more more Blizzard makes, simple math there. It's not hourly, which would actually deter people from over-doing it if they saw a more immediate time/money suck, but monthly of course. But the goal is the same.

Yes, I have played it actually. Mind-numbing would be my description. Repetitive tasks, bland fantasy tropes and "writing" that actually seemed to make me feel dumber as I hear or saw more of it.

Simply put, I'd much rather be a terrible writer, artist, guitarist, novelist and general person than the finest Orc in all of Ogrimar.

@ The Lizardman

s tht th ntrnt pdntry s t n fll frc. It's regularly attributed to Barnum, and it's even the opening of the musical of his life. To whom should I send flowers and candy to apologize for misquoting? I bow to your superior knowledge of PT Barnum quotes. You're no more or less right in your position and my argument still stands regardless. But do you feel better?

As for you playing WoW and having a fulfilling creative life, that's fantastic for you. And how much more would you have done and accomplished if you weren't simply wandering around gathering electronic tokens?

Consuming a book, a play, music or any other creative entity you expand your experience, WOW does nothing but appeal to the meticulous nature of some individuals, enrich Blizzard and provide nothing more than a time suck. The story of WOW itself is nothing more than a cobbling together of geek culture (Tolkein here, Narnia there, Robert Jordan here, mix in memes of the moment, stir). Like so much of "remix culture" it adds nothing new, expands nothing and simply allows the users to wander in the familiar rather than embrace the unknown.

@NoneSuch

I don't hate WOW at all. I'm deadly serious about it being a honeyed trap for people who'd otherwise be competing with me for gigs and creative work. Like folks who get home, drop in front of the tv and zone out till the lights go dim, they're opting out of life and making room for people who would rather do than consume. Glad you're there buying it, but I can't help but think Blizzard knows their PT Barnum "Sucker Born Every Minute" philosophy all too well.

People who create new things, explore and invent new worlds are definitely better off than the folks watching the flicker. The Allegory of the Cave with a broadband connection.

And more people saw "Transformers" than farm in this country and yet you don't see public policy guided by opinions over Optimus Prime.

Warcraft players only meaningful contribution is making it easier for people who actually want to accomplish things with their lives to do so. Every Orc, Dwarf or Demon is one less script, one less comic book, one less novel, one less body at the market. Thanks for staying inside basking in the glow of electro-fantasy!

oboreruhito nailed it. Anyone feeling cheated for paying whatever they want (a minimum of 45p) for an album is really asking to be mocked.

They circumvented piracy, opened up their music, made a tidy sum and likely drew in many more curious listeners who hadn't bought a radiohead album before but were hooked in my the method of distribution.

Yes, they're still going to release it as an album, and a box set and whatever else. It's a multi-platform release and it gives their audience alot more options. The casual fan can get the download, the committed can grab the cd and the rabid can get the box set. That's a hell of alot more choice than most artists give you.

But they've also shown up the leaks and put out the tracks as they wanted them presented. Bravo to them.

I agree that this has the patina of an Ellison non-fiction story. That's both a credit and a loss really. No one spins yarns like Ellison, but then those yarns tend to place heroes and villains in very stark terms.

This Janna woman is clearly mentally ill. I've dealt with a person eerily similar in my own life. A person who claimed a childhood rife with sexual and physical abuse, awful family characters and constant turmoil. Years after I knew her I found out, definitively, that she had an almost idyllic childhood and that her parents were good and decent people deeply troubled by the "stories" she told about them.

But what about the victim and her responsibility in this? For nigh on two years she flew completely blind on this? Most people would barely go a week without some kind of proof of life when it comes to internet romance. Two years?

You can't go to the funeral, or the grave or see the family or...at a certain point there must come a reckoning of common sense here.

I feel that both women were, and are, vulnerable and lonely people who each accepted a lie as truth and lived with it. Is Janna the more responsible party? Of course, as she initiated all this. But two years? There's more going on there than a simple con.

I don't think showing her picture or the youtube video is very ethical. I understand the impulse, to protect other peole from this woman. But she's clearly, as they used to say, mad. The broken look on her face, the lack of any affect, the fact she sat there at just took it when she could have walked down the street or responded or anything, no. She's not a sane woman. That doesn't excuse her or give her a free pass by any means, but I can't see her as some single-shaded bad guy either.