Oh, and John, what about Xenu?
Fuck, wrong thread, sorry...
Takuan again....
We have a moderator here, Teresa Nielson Hayden, whose threads show up as Teresa Nielson Hayden / moderator.
There is also a stealth moderator on these threads.
I submit that from now on YOU sign in as Takuan/Immoderator.
Give some of the poor fish in the barrel a sporting chance at least.

@ Takuan,
Hello again Tak.
Previously on these pages, I have accused you of being glib, and having ill thought out responses.
I have intimated that you tend to poke people for a response without actually holding a stated position.

I apologise unreservedly for any slight on your character.

I see that in regard to organised religion and dangerous cults our view points are similar, and that you will research a point before attacking.

Continue to go hard my friend.
As soon as the alleged church that soured my childhood is held up for ridicule here, I will bare my soul.
Expect nothing different from JW or Co$ crap.

As a non-'merican, can I submit that there is only one logical presidential candidate, and Mr. McCain just disqualified himself?

Unfortunately, I can't get google maps to run on ubuntu yet.
Look up Kinloch, Taupo, New Zealand.
That means I show I guess.

That link doesn't seem to be anywhere near Taupo Takuan

Awesome place to live and bring up kids Tak.
Place I live in barely shows up on google earth.
Don't want to out it here though.

No, I live on the shore of lake Taupo, so trout fishing is a big passtime here.

Kiwis are a bit chewy.
Pigs, deer, rabbit, turkey, pheasant and goat are in my freezer at the moment.

Haven't been brave enough to try hedgehog and possum.

@Tak #25

I understand what you are saying, but I would never do that. (Honest officer)
Public property is cool, and if seeds "happen" to blow over the boundary, then, damn!

Gokiburi
OW

Holy Crap!
I have been doing this for years and never knew it was a movement.
I live in a tiny village in the middle of New Zealand. My wife and I moved here from Australia for a lifestyle change. When we got here, we discovered that my earnings were about 1/4th of what I earned in Aussie.

Not a problem if we were both working, and with no dependents. But she was pregnant with our first child.

I planted a vege garden, and I hunt, so our food bill was lower than it could have been.

One day our garden was wiped out. We had torrential downpour over four days that wiped out the seedlings. So I foraged.

We live in an area with less than 200 residents, and over 600 holiday homes. I searched a lot of back yards (I know, trespassing, mea culpa.)
I found a lot of wild vegetables, so, to feed my family, I took them.
Then I re-planted. And kept harvesting and re-planting.
Then I marked the position of all of these places on my GPS.
During this time, I also noted a lot of fruit trees and nut trees that were either on public land or not being harvested.
I marked these on my GPS as well.

The things that survived well seemed to be limited, so I expanded my efforts, and planted on empty lots, and also marked these.

What amazed me was that other people were harvesting the produce as well.
For example, there is a large house here that has been empty ever since I got here. It is apparently owned by a North American businessman who barely uses it.
I picked his apples one year. (Thanks!!) But came back next time to find them gone.
I have found people harvesting herb gardens I have planted, and told people of mushroom fields I use.
I harvest around 90% of our fruit and veges. Half of that from my own garden, the rest foraged or as a result of guerilla gardening.

I had a neighbour knock on my door and ask if I was the one harvesting his garden, I said yes and offered some form of payment for what I had taken.. He declined, and asked me to water his flowers, and keep an eye on his boat.

Awesome movement.

oooops...
Sorry.
prostrate...

Costello certainly gets a "H".
If I no longer prostate myself, can someone please adjust my back?
OW.

Tak, Can I be cockroach? Please? Huh? Huh?
Go on, can I?
Sapporo John, had I called anyone else here a liar and a coward I would have had an honest response. Even if that response was only anger.
(How about it Tak, You are a liar and a coward...)
I have never called anyone that, either online or IRL. You failed to acknowledge that I had spoken, let alone answered a question.
Takuan annoys me frequently with his glib, ill thought out responses. (Again, sorry Tak, personal opinion....)
My response to Tak generally lasts about 4 seconds or so.
My response to you lasts considerably longer and is a lot more negative.
I would discuss with Tak a lot of my experiences and genuinely expect an honest response, whether I liked it or not. He has proved this over many months of watching his comments: The substance does not change, so nor does the man.
I would not expect the same courtesy from you, as you have shown yourself to be dishonest by omission.
By failing to answer, you have shown what I said to be true.
You have two options to redeem yourself at this point.
Either answer, or don't post again.

Both would speak volumes.

Oh, by the way, the question that came up that I want answered?
Just in case you had forgotten..
What do you know about Xenu?

Actually John,
I for one feel like you are the one lying about your religion.
Omission is a lie of a type after all.
You will not answer direct questions.
You will not discuss what we all find interesting.
You put people down and use pseudo facts and diversion to justify the unjustifiable.

You sir are a liar and a coward.

All that remains is for you to send us a bill for conveying your crap to us.

Xenu??

If you didn't cause me pain, you wouldn't be making me think.
Which is worse?

Pain I can handle, obfuscation I cannot.

Sapporo John,
You still avoid the question.
I have some experience with the CoS.
It is a dangerous cult.
It deliberately fucks with peoples minds, and asks them to pay for the privilege.

Antinous: You are much more articulate than I.
I salute your Wordjutsu.
Taku-san, yours isn't bad either. (That didn't hurt as much as I thought it would)

John: Xenu?

Sapporo John,
You are obfuscating.
I often rant about Taku-san and his erm, distinctive, style...
BUT.. Answer a perfectly civil and obvious question.
What do you know about Xenu?

Vodka? Check.
Pills? Check.
Music? Ahh.. Thanks for that.

Takuan,

I was in finance for too many years.
I averaged 35 loans a month, and was paid depending on size of loan, interest rate, term, and add ons such as insurance.
The more of everything the better.
It never came back to haunt me if clients couldn't pay.

But you are correct in saying that I would have been fired if I made less or no loans.

I worked with a former bank manager.
They had performance appraisals every year, and one year he only wrote off about $6,000 in bad debt.
He was very pleased with himself, but got chastised for being to conservative.
Had he made more loans, more would have failed, but more would have flown as well.
During that time, and even now, the bank is the last entity that will lose out if a loan goes bad. (Under normal circumstances)

If you have a mortgagee sale, the person who ends up carrying the can in the case of a deficit is still the borrower.
Banks collapse only when a large number of these people either refuse to pay, or cannot pay as is happening now.

The irony is the utter predictability of it all.

Cory, awesome job.

Giving books to schools is a fantastic thing to do. (I donated 100 copies of Noam Chomsky's work to various schools)

I love the fact that the subject is "subversive" too.

I read ebooks a lot, but I prefer dead tree stuff.
If I enjoy a book, I will always buy a copy, and often two or three.
The extras I put onto bookcrossing.com
I have been known to buy two copies of a book, and anything else I can find by that author.
This alleged effort doesn't tempt me to read Gaian's work.

Paulballs brutally disemvoewlled I see...

This really goes against the grain but Takuan, I *choke cough* agree (urgh) with you.

This really goes against the grain but Takuan, I *choke cough* agree (urgh) with you.

@#7Noen
I was going to quote Nuremberg to Jeff, but you beat me to it.
In this situation there is no excuse that is a good excuse.
Profitability of shareholders as an excuse to break the law and spy on fellow citizens?
Any shareholder that voted for that deserves to share a cell with those that implemented it.

@17 GIVEAPHUK.
I fly around Australia and NZ all the time. I take on average three flights a week, and have done for four years now. I have NEVER had to do this.
Do you look overly suspicious, or do I look like a completely innocent cherub?

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of this, when the first article appeared, I said something along the lines of "Print and be damned, I'll buy two".
Takuan replied that he would buy three.

My two are on order, Takuan, I hope you have ordered your three.

Print and be damned. I'll buy two.

I myself judge others by what I perceive to be their intent.

Perceive.

Exactly.

I view the world through my own filters and refuse to see my own bigotry as such.

@Takuan
Not just the visual Takuan.
This is also a media of visual exchange.

Getting offensive ink is not (yet) a crime.
I have met and interviewed those who think all ink is offensive.

I decide what I get on my skin but I have had an artist refuse to put a certain image in a highly visible place.

An open mind and tolerance go a long way.
Both for the likes of Cowicide, and for Kirk.

Harsh judgements do more harm to the judger than the judged.
If you look at my ink, I have no doubt some will be offended. I don't care, your upset doesn't upset me.
There are those who will say it should, but that way lies the nanny state telling us all what to think and when to think it.

I have been involved in the custom bike scene for more than a few years, and the hard thing to find is individuality.
This is cool.

I am a former criminal. I guess in the US I would be called a felon. I have tattoos that others would find offensive. I keep them and it reminds me of who I was and where I was.
I would *NEVER* get the same tatts again, and I am fortunate that they are coverable with a t-shirt.
However, I will not get rid of them. One of the things that they inspire in me is humility.
I have had to explain them to my wife, and in the near future, I will have to explain them to my children.

I don't like nazi symbols (and for the record mine are not), but I will not judge the man for what is ink. No matter how offensive.

I worked for a long time as a journalist, including a stint as a photographer for a tattoo magazine.
I learned very quickly that there are those who no longer have the values that they did when the tatts were inked, but use them as a signpost for themselves. As do I.

Tattoos are personal. If it offends, then that is/was probably the point. I know some of mine were used for that.
The same goes for intimidation.

Ask the question of the wearer, I often did.
Be ready to be told to fuck off. I often did, and often do.

@Bardfinn
You beat me to it with your comment to Ruggerdhawk.
Good thing too, 'cause you are way more eloquent than me.

Newspapers and TV news exist for one reason only, and that is to sell an audience (us) to the advertisers.
Therefore they will print/screen whatever is going to draw in the largest audience, and spin it so that the majority feels comfortable with the spin.
A right wing paper will also have a left wing commentator to draw in another audience, and to manufacture outrage in the majority of its readers.

But the important thing to remember is that we are the commodity that is being sold.

Media make far more money from advertisers than buyers or subscribers.

I suggest Noam Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent" for an analysis. Heavy going in parts, but worth the read.

Shouldn't that be the iRubMyClit?

@#27 Teresa Nielsen Hayden / Moderator
Hear F*cking hear!!!

@Cory, well argued!!
I am a vegitarian by choice, and I would still use this bag.

My wife is pregnant with our second child.
We are having a little difficulty with names.
Can the person who came up with Mr. Splashy Pants please contact us to help.

Something that people don't seem to have noticed is the reason for the existence of news channles/papers/blogs etc, and this includes this site.
We, the readers, are a saleable item.
Advertisers want us.
The more a blog/tv show/radio show is read/watched/listened to, the more valuable it is.

WE, the viewer, are the commodity here.

Read with cynicism.
Also read the likes of Noam Chomsky and Greg Palast.

You are being lied to constantly.

Educate yourself.

I use e-books as an introduction to the author.
If I like what I read, after a chapter or two I will buy the book, and normally several others by the same author.
I started doing this after becoming a member of book-crossing and finding some great dead tree stuff by authors I had never heard of.
I use that site the same way, find something I like and buy more, then release a couple of books by that author.
I will often buy two or more copies of something I have found as an e-book and release it so others can enjoy it too.