Here he is dancing with Dick Cheney (almost) and here's another shot on the set, of a knock off called Gomes, which was the same suit with added differences.

I would love to have one of him signing autographs, maybe on the red carpet in a tux, or hanging out by the pool with shades on, a boat drink, maybe smokin' a stogie and with a bikini babe on each arm.

You sure it's not paint so a certain hockey-mom can shoot them more easily from a helicopter?

JAKE@2: As am I. Hopefully it will be a day to rival or surpass 02-15-03, and hopefully with greater impact. Thanks BB for the head's up.

CRIZZEL@107: Really? Wow. You could have clarified your stance without getting insulting, but instead you proved me right to call you out on your generalizations. When you resort to name-calling, you surely have no argument at all. Let's take a look at what you said originally:

"yes, republicans are hypocrites... so are democrats."

This post was not about Democrat hypocrisy, hence the title. This is why I said: "When the Dems make such blatant hypocritical statements, I would expect them to be called on it too." In other words, if Obama, Hilary, or Biden fuck up this brilliantly, they will get their turn as well.

Then you said:

"People are happy to crucify the other side for something they are happy to forgive from their own side. The actually stances and positions are details."

People? Which people? All people? This is way too wide of a generalization to be of any use, even overlooking grammatical flub. In the context of this thread, it would seem that you were referring to the folks commenting here on the aforementioned Republican hypocrisy. This is why I replied: "Your assumption that readers here will look the other way when / if Dems do the same is idiotic and insulting."

Note I did not call you an idiot, as you did. I said the assumption you seemed to make was idiotic, in my opinion, and insulting to those here who are participating in this discussion more constructively.

Lastly, you said:

"That in a nutshell, is the current state of American politics. Both sides appear happy to go on like that."

Now you are finally making a comment on the state of American politics, which seemed to me to be a giant leap in simplicity and narrow-mindedness. It does not suggest an alternative solution or reasonably entertain any other possibilities, which is why I commented that it is filled with failure. That you find the details immaterial is further evidence that you are not being helpful to the discussion at hand. The devil is always in the details.

It seems to me that these political articles in this election year bring out a lot of first-time posters who do little to further the discussion at hand, and would rather offer fatalistic generalizations in the effort to derail the general thread. I was calling you out on this, albeit not delicately. If you are bored by this, then please feel free not to return. If you stay, I would hope you would be able to meet me on the plane of ideas and rational discussion, not devolving into the kind of reactionary poo slinging you purport to eschew. Simply because you engage in the kind of hypocrisy that you seem "happy" to ignore in your own statements does not mean that everyone else does, here in this thread or in "American politics" in general.

In case anyone missed this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-QevraCQUc

Just remember folks, you can't spell "politician" without CIA in the middle of it (ok, actually off to the right, appropriately.)

Teresa: I've been thinking a little more on this and I'd like to give a more concrete example to illustrate my point a little better, if I may.

McCain is now running on the platform of change, mirroring one of the main thrusts of the Obama campaign since its inception. Change is a good idea. After 8 years of bush-Cheney cluster fiascoes, neither party is denying that things can't go on as they have been. The rhetoric from both camps may contain a lot of the same language and message. Who do you believe can really deliver something different?

It would seem to me that taking the goals of the source into account (both want to get elected, one's party being the same that spawned and more closely collaborated with bush, the other being the loyal opposition, sometimes fighting him tooth and nail) and the context (one having a voting record more closely aligned with bush's goals than the other) is the only way to weed out who is bullshiting more than the other. The arguments ring hollow when one has not taken actions to prove their intentions. If one has behaved opposite of their stated intentions, theirs is the greater hypocrisy.

I agree that if you were simply debating issues in a vacuum, then the validity of an argument would stand on how well it is expressed and documented, but it seems to me that is not what we were talking about here in the context of this thread (this being the real world with people with real histories and agendas who are making these statements.) I never said that one's moral standing lends more validity to one's argument. I merely stated that a person's goals and context are important in being able to discern who is more truthful and who is being more hypocritical in their statements, and thus, having the more meaningful argument. In short: Your actions do back up your words.

Thank you for considering these points.

In case you were wondering, I was not being facetious at #103. I have a tremendous amount of respect for you and only wish you well. Even though we may disagree occasionally, I wanted to temper any animosity that might be perceived in cold text with an expression of genuine emotion.

Teresa: I would like to add that I love you.

Teresa: If the goals of the source of an argument and context have nothing to do with it, why is this post titled: "Daily Show on Republican hypocrisy" and what is the point of it?

If McCain, for instance, kisses a supporter's baby, it is not in a vacuum. Why is this not a good thing? He is sharing love for an infant, after all.

It is not a good thing because his motives, as defined by the stated goals of the source (a politician) and context (campaigning for himself or his party, and having a record of doing little for children once they are born) are not really of love but of self-aggrandizement. It is hypocrisy precisely because he is doing one thing while attempting to appear in another light entirely, in this hypothetical instance. If all arguments are to be valued solely on their own merit then there is no such thing as hypocrisy.

I though that was the point of sharing this post. To watch how noted Republicans are reversing their previous stances to fit whomever they are trying to trash or support, based on the target's affiliations.

As for Crizzel: I wish you would so I wouldn't have to.

There is little I love more than good absurdist humor. I did not find this commercial funny in the least. If this is supposed to be absurdist, yer doin' it wrong.

And what shall be done about this new smoking gun? Probably nothing, just like the others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgUWTquztGY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBRpW5sEvJk

TEAPOT7@94: I didn't know you had been appointed to make policy here. Oh wait. You appointed yourself! Please see the moderation thread for the rules of "contributing to discussion" here and have a nice day.

TAKUAN@143: Bwahahahahaha! Next he'll be saying he's never heard n_____ used as a racial epithet either. Can we please turn the page now?

MUIRN81@133: "...Abe Lincoln was the first official Republican President. So you might say that the Republican party made it possible for Barack Obama to run for President."

This assertion is asinine and betrays a total lack of historical perspective. Get a real argument. News flash: The Republicans used to be liberal and the Democrats used to be conservative. They cover this in High School Govt. classes. Obama has a hell of a lot more in common with Honest Abe than McCain, now that you bring it up. (*stifles vomiting*) Are you suggesting Obama should thank his massah for his freedom instead of being so uppity as to run for president? Please! You're not showing much intelligence on behalf of your party (typically.)

GREEBO@89: Put it in the moderation thread. This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic under discussion. You've just proven you were justly disemvowelled with your irrelevance. You're not clever, you're just annoying.

CRIZZEL@86: When the Dems make such blatant hypocritical statements, I would expect them to be called on it too. Your assumption that readers here will look the other way when / if Dems do the same is idiotic and insulting. Bravo! Your fist post here could not be filled with more failure.

Good news! Amoral corporate behemoth Monsanto (who created DDT) has been forced to give up on their campaign to inject all US cows with Posilac (artificial hormone to produce more milk, detrimental to cows.)

http://www.jimhightower.com/node/6577

This is hilarious: Is McCain Palin's bitch?

Teresa: Sorry. I knew that ran on long, but it was all the same general idea. I realized after that I should have broken it up line by line. Thanks for the editing tip.

Did you see Chelsea at the DNC? I think she's pretty hot. This is further evidence that they are not only mean-spirited hypocrites, but blind.

NONEOFYOURBUSINESS@93: Thanks. I keep thinking of more (it seems endless.)

Being in the GOP allows you the freedom to toss aside years and years of proven science in favor of an unfounded and ludicrous set of beliefs.

Being in the GOP allows you the freedom to define torture any way you like.

Anybody got any I missed?

VAGABONDASTRONOMER@77: Being in the GOP makes you free in many ways: It makes you free from paying your share of taxes if you are in the richest 1% of the country. It makes you free to be a racist or hate homosexuals these days, even though it has been shown beyond a shadow of a doubt to be a fatally flawed and stupid, backward way of thinking. It makes you free to thump the bible whenever you please, while doing exactly the opposite of what Jesus would do, in every circumstance. It makes you free from environmental or corporate responsibility on this planet and in this country that allowed you to flourish. It makes you free from actually doing anything productive that might be in your job description, as long as you are a cronie of someone in power and tow the party line. It makes you free from responding to, or allowing volunteers to respond to national emergencies, preferring to whitewash them instead. It makes you free from having to think, even if you are a Federal Judge or media pundit: All your decisions and talking points are made for you. It makes you free to spend the government into bankruptcy, bloating it into Orwellian proportions and disfunctionality while denying the most basic of human services like health care and education to everyone who can't afford to pay through the nose. It makes you free to hate illegal immigrants and build walls and fences to keep them out, while simultaneously exploiting them for their cheap labor and lack of benefits. It makes you free to gut the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights to suit your own megalomaniacal objectives, intruding big government deeper and more intimately into everyone's lives. It allows you to be all about the rights of the unborn, and yet do nothing to help the victims of rape; nothing for childcare for unwed mothers or people living in poverty to feed and clothe their children. It allows you to spy on ordinary Americans illegally with retroactive immunity from prosecution. It makes you free to make up any shit you want to get us into a pointless and unjust war with no end in sight. It makes you free from oversight if you are a private contractor in the employ of the US Government, able to massively overcharge the federal treasury and under-deliver any time you like. It makes you free from competition for bids on your contractor work, if you are a war profiteer. It makes you free from accountability if you are a mercenary band, murdering innocent civilians or otherwise doing the dirtiest jobs federal agents won't even touch. In short, it makes you free from the rule of Law, the Spirit of Justice, and everything this civilization once stood for. Yes, this is the freedom the GOP has created.

PETERUS@20: "Republican hypocrisy' You are being redundant (in the current context of post 1980 politics.) The only exception to this is Mr. Ron Paul. Please explain why you believe McCain is the lesser of two evils, since you have decided to meddle in US politics. Try to do it without labeling anyone "socialist" because it doesn't seem like you know what the word means. This should be interesting.

CK@18: Indeed.

RINDAN@12: "What people need to realize is that being a hypocrite doesn't invalidate an argument. It might mean that the hypocrite in question might not be the most personally upstanding citizen, but it isn't an invalidation of the argument."

Yes, it does. / Yes it is. If your ideology is so flimsy that you change it in every instance to suit your agenda, then it is not an ideology: You are simply justifying what you want to do in any way you can. People who use seemingly good arguments to suit their goals whenever convenient are simply being manipulative bastards.

"I guess my point is that we shouldn't use hypocrisy as an argument for justifying bad behavior. You can be both a hypocrite AND right."

No, you can't, for the above mentioned reason (they aren't right, they are just being a manipulative bastard.) You have to take the goals and context into account in deciphering any statement, especially political ones.

There is no justification for bad behavior. (I believe in peaceful protest, for instance, exclusively.) Doing good things for bad reasons is still wrong, because it may have a hidden agenda that does greater harm in the end. Doing bad things for good reasons is equally wrong, because in the trade off you become what you resist. You've heard the expression: Actions speak louder than words. This is why this is true. The ends never justify the means.

P3N3NC3@64: Godwin's Law

New bumper sticker:
CARD CARRYING COMMUNITY ORGANIZER

You know, I'm generally not one to Godwin, but 9ulian1's speech bears a striking resemblance to the speeches of another well known orator who found hate a lot easier to rally the masses behind than any other emotion. Big lies work too. Huge whoppers that point fingers. It saddens me to say, but yes, that's where we seem to be.

"Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'."

XOPL@2: "I have to wonder how many of these comments are submitted by the police themselves or other agents of the state."

Yes, I believe we had a bit of that going on here as well.

Interesting experiment and noble cause. I hope it can shed some light on the shenanigans.

The best moment of the RNC was outside, of course. Doing just what these guys were born to do. Just as at home behind the megaphone mixing with the people as on stage. This is indeed a wonderful thing!

I think it's fLAMER: "I have enough ties to the community to make enough of a stink to get public attention"

ANTINOUS: Do you sometimes feel like the host of the Pre-Taped Call In Show? =D

According to the diagram linked here previously (Thanks SONNY@79) The Department of Museum and Library Services (That's both Musuems AND Libraries) accounts for .242 billion out of a total budget of 782 billion. You do the math. The cost of the books fLAMER might like to see banned is a very small % of that, even per library (even if, as I suspect, that might be a very large list.)

IVAN256: For someone who said "All that's left to do here is watch in amusement as most of the commenters fool themselves" you sure seem to have a lot to spew. Why don't you go back to watching.

fLAMER: There's no arguing with "logic" like yours. And besides, you BS seems to be self-evident.

I don't have a problem with Adolph Hitler's, Sean Hannity's, Rush Limbaugh's, george bush's, Richard Nixon's, or Ann Coulter's books being in the public library, for example. I don't feel threatened in the least by their utterly diametric opinions to my own being out in the public domain, and in fact, I defend their rights to be there too. Just don't touch my Mark Twain, Phillip K. Dick, or Kurt Vonnegut either.

FLAMER@66: Do you know how little of your tax $ goes to funding libraries? When compared to all the other pork-barrel out there, you choosing your battleground here is very telling.

The problem with choosing to eliminate books is that there are very different opinions about what books are valued and which are not so much. Already there is public input about what goers into a public library (requests are solicited in every one of them) but to remove selections comes from wanting to limit information and access to ideas. This is NOT what a supposedly democratic society is about. Ideas are not seen as dangerous, in themselves, in a free society. As Minty said, (paraphrasing) just check out what you want, but don't limit someone else's choices.

"Books are burning
In the main square, and I saw there
The first eating the text
Books are burning
In the still air
And you know where they burn books
People are next
I believe the printed word should be forgiven
Doesn't matter what it said
Wisdom hotline from the dead back to the living
Key to the larder for your heart and head
Books are burning
In our own town, watch us turn 'round
And cast our glances elsewhere
Books are burning
In the playground
Smell of burnt book is not unlike human hair
I believe the printed word is more than sacred
Beyond the gauge of good or bad
The human right to let your soul fly free and naked
Above the violence of the fearful and sad
The church of matches
Anoints in ignorance with gasoline
The church of matches
Grows fat by breathing in the smoke of dreams
It's quite obscene
Books are burning
More each day now, and I pray now
You boys will tire of these games
Books are burning
I hope somehow, this will allow
A phoenix up from the flames"

FLAMER#62: Public review does not mean an elected official on a crusade.

Oh, boy. Flamerphonebook is at it again...

I guess I was trying to say cooking did NOT reduce their entheogenic effects.

NOT A DOKTOR: "Would cooking it or the standard american "cow-patties" reduce the psychedelic effects?"

I'm not a botanist, but I have seen people cook with them like normal mushrooms and brew them into tea, with only magnified results (I think it has more to do with ingesting larger quantities if prepared in these ways than becoming more powerful in actual effect.)

OM@32: And she is of the party of PILFering...

Sparkzilla: O could use a little time out of the spotlight. It's about time someone else got to squirm under the microscope. If Michelle O had just had her 5th baby at 44, and she'd announced her teenage daughter is 5 months pregnant right before the convention, the resultant "scandal" would've put him out of the race (no pun intended.) Why isn't Fox news calling Palin or her daughter a Baby Mama? (Oh yes, because it wouldn't be racist.)

Nice link Takuan, and "Rovie bunted." -Heh indeed!

FIRST COP: Man, it's hot.
SECOND COP: Yeah, and pepper spaying hippies is thirsty work...

(Ground starts to tremble, walls begin to crack, and a huge red anthropomorphic smiling pitcher bursts through the crumbling wall, holding a smaller pitcher of red Kool Aid(tm))

KOOL AID GUY: OH YEAH!!!

(They taser the fuck out of him repeatedly)

CMPALMER@35: "Call BS if you want, but if you think your psychic lie-detection skills are so good, you ought to hire yourself out..."

Ok. Since you seem to have all the connections in law enforcement, hook me up.

What does your political party leaning have to do with this discussion? Just because you call yourself a libertarian (with a little l) doesn't automatically make you a moderate. I have met a lot of extreme libertarians, personally, who are actually the most likely to be the ones first to get violent at a protest.

So you just happened to start responding now because "this thread just happened to intersect with an e-mail thread some of my friends and I were having"? -I guess the same goes for the previous thread you posted on?

Ok, maybe you're not trolling, but you sure bring a lot of astroturf with you.

I feel safer already. Doesn't it feel like the precursor to an action movie starring Schwarzenegger / Stallone / Willis / Russell, where they single-handedly foil the terrorist / alien / (yes, or zombie) apocalypse, thanks to this ridiculous thing?

I'll bet they take turns firing it, if functional, for kicks (cops got some strange needs.)

CMPALMER@11: Your friend is in the what-Service? Woops!

Do you honestly want us to believe you outed your friend so sloppily, sharing his email with us, albeit redacted? I not only call bullshit on this, as Takuan did, but I further name you Troll. A quick look at your brief time with us (4 posts; all very recent; the only ones not disemvowelled being here in this thread; all of which taking a decidedly contrary position to most) is very telling. Your quote sounds like more like a cop perspective than an SSA, and somehow the tone stays consistent with your own voice. Hmmm. I am beginning to see Clark Kent behind that cape.

The rest of what I was going to say to you was already said by SIRDOOK@16. Thanks for playing!

Next new punk band name: Conspiracy To Riot!

ZIKZAK: This is a much more refreshing argument than "The journalist shoved the cop! / No she didn't!" -don't you think? I agree that ultimately we are on the same side.

I wish that the mainstream media, now that they are finally deigning to touch this story, was not latching onto the actions of the more violent protesters and already spinning the unconscionable and unconstitutional detaining and jailing of professional journalists as a search for the RNC Welcoming Committee "anarchists." Moderates are already switching the channel. Diversity of tactics is all fine and dandy until we are all marching in the same space, and the actions of one group get muddied with the other. This is why those we fight hold most of the cards: They are marching in lock-step unity, and as you said, they hold a near monopoly on freedom of speech.

I don't know what the solution is, but we'd better find one soon.

ANTINOUS: You mean it's time to re-coup our losses? (Ahem...) =D

The Military should be the first to oppose this unjust war and those who began it / are running it, much like Buddy did in '68. (You go Buddy!) To be fair, there are many decent cops out there too. The only way to win them over is to take the pacifist route, imho.

Yeah the time is right for a bloodless revolution...

Things are starting to tickle out. A number of additional video clips are imbedded here (as well as ones we've seen, linked from BB.) The bottom two include local news coverage, the first of which seems quite biased on behalf of the police. They actually say a Judge told them it was ok in the case of the Eyewitness Video raid to go through the wrong house (the one in the warrant) to get to the house where the journalists were being detained. They are the only media outlet I have seen purporting this. If it is true, A) Why go through the wrong house when they were at all of the other doors to the premises already? and B) Why didn't the judge simply correct the address on the warrant, or issue a new one? Between the news outlet and the cops, somebody seems to be selling a bag of WMDs here.

ZIKZAK: I think there are more creative ways of grabbing headlines than monkey-wrenching local businesses and trash-bins. Remember the sit-ins, be-ins, and bed-ins in the 60's that were just as much a part of the movements you cite, if not more? I agree that defacing corporate property is not to be equated with or reacted to with violence toward a person, but already the media are latching onto the weapons of disruption in order to spin the RNC Welcoming Committee as terrorists. Wouldn't be nice if people marched in the streets and protested peacefully and the cops, if any, were the only ones perpetrating violence of any kind? Wouldn't that motivate more people to be sympathetic to your cause?

There are groups trying to pierce the silence of the media in publicizing the arrest of Amy Goodman. You can sign petitions here and here. Thanks! =D

KYLE@96: Just because Xeni said you were behaving like a douche doesn't mean that she called you a douche. Are we supposed to empathize with you now for blaming the victim? Why don't you go get some footage of your own, since no one can seem to meet your standards. As Takuan said eloquently above @13: "when you're shivering in the dark you don't spit on the few embers present."

JOHNATHAN V@~: No matter how many times you state your opinion like a broken record, it doesn't make it so. Get a new script please.

CHRIS GRISWOLD@45: Maybe it is your login that should be omitted. As Xeni has said many times before: "There's this thing called a spacebar..."

KIERAN O'NEILL@72 and elsewhere: Thanks for trying to keep us on thread and objective.

It is a shame that these protests turned violent, but I don't see Amy Goodman shoving anyone. She merely doesn't immediately let herself be shoved after they have already started to arrest her. She tries to look to someone in charge to appeal to, but this is not shoving. The cop interposes himself. Her account of what happened seems accurate enough to me. (@82)

Let us pause to think for a moment as to why this is happening, shall we? I deplore all of the violence or destruction of property engaged in by protesters, but for those of you who believe they should not be disrupting a "vital part of our democratic process" let us consider the events that have led to this.

The last two presidential elections in this country were stolen outright, removing the most vital part of our democratic process: the vote. Laws like the Patriot Act and others have stripped away our constitutional rights one by one, mostly behind closed doors. Corporate special interests and lobbyists have shown time and time again that they own the government, and have continued to strip away the things we used to love about this country, often against overwhelming opposition and uprising by the American people. We are being spied upon by are own government and the corporations that illegally perpetrated this (starting well before 9-11) are now immune from prosecution. Crimes committed by senior officials in the bush administration (Enron, Valerie Plame, etc.) continue to go unpunished, and those responsible cannot even be held accountable by congress for failing to even show up and testify. This administration has bullied and broken every check and balance that once made this country a beacon of liberty and democracy, while "enforced democracy" has been exported to the benefit of war profiteers, and to the detriment of the citizens of these lands so their resources can continue to be exploited. Thousands of Americans have died, and over a million Iraqis have been killed, maimed, and tortured in our name, and in the name of "Freedom." Jails and utilities have been privatized so that they are now providing inescapable incentives to deny service and create more criminals, all in the name of big business. The environment has been systematically raped, while they continue to negligently disregard global warming and shackle us Big Oil, ignoring real energy alternatives in order to line their pockets. There are many many more examples of greed and corruption becoming the rule here now, while ethics and liberties, rights and laws are simply tossed aside when inconvenient in the mad grab for power for the few at the expense of the rest of us, as well as unborn generations to come.

Is it any wonder why many people feel desperate enough to try to seek any means of making their voices heard, especially with a news media that is either outright bought or completely cowed into submission? In this context, what can possibly justify your defense of those willing to be the front lines of crushing the only voice left to the people?

Both conventions are being protested because the two-horse system is ensuring that many of the real issues are not even being discussed. The Democrats have either been to weak to stand up for the people, or outright complicit in some of this administration's crimes. It is quite telling that someone felt the need to preemptively detain journalists and others peacefully and innocently assembling before the convention of the party in power.

I just did another check of the mainstream media: Still crickets in regards to the protests, except we're hearing a lot about those Thai protesters. What does this say about the state of our country?

Wow. That's freakin' awesome!

Here is the latest on this from the NYT. No word of the scrubbing, but it all but mentions this post and others linked here by name. It's not the Dem campaign's place to harp on this, but it sure seems to be ours.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02palin.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

I think she doth protest a bit too much.

THEBES@39: Please see my comment in the previous related thread regarding your 2nd paragraph. In regards to your 1st: Only 8 years of bush could have taken us here in the first place. It's not a "fore-taste" as much as a bitter after-taste. (I agree, however, that we should try to avoid 4 more.)

W JAMES@31: "Radicals among the protesters get violent, either because they're nihilist douchebags or they're trying to provoke an official overreaction, on cue the cops overreact and start widening their dragnet way too wide, the activists claim they're being suppressed while ignoring the radicals' behavior that's totally taken the moral high ground from them."

Consider that the cops have already testified they they have infiltrated many protest groups and are doing what they can to incite violence to discredit them, as linked previously by J9C on the aforementioned related thread.

E0157H7@26: "keep in mind that when the guns come out things like the Kent State shootings happen. It's easy for a situation like this to escalate."

Unfortunately, what they learned from Kent St. was to A) Buy, consolidate, and effectively control the media, and B) Develop an arsenal of non-lethal weapons (tasers, rubber bullets, heat rays) so they can disrupt any gathering without creating the bloodshed that would mean a huge backlash and fuel people getting more serious about organizing against them. We have to somehow create the crystallization of vision and unity that Kent St. did, without bloodshed, because they are trying very hard not to be seen doing this out in the open, while in the shadows they are doing far worse to innocent people the world over.

XENI: I thank you from the bottom of my heart for filling in for the lack of professional journalism on the part of our mainstream media. All of you here at BB are going way out of your way to cover what is expressly being omitted, and what you never really signed up for in creating what seems to have been originally designed as a spotlight on cool culture in the form of a zine / blog. These times have made you into incidental heroes of the info wars. I hope you continue to do these things, which are indeed wonderful, for as long as such is demanded by the lack of a true 4th house of government, silenced by the machine that is devouring our rights and liberties.

KYLE: I have re-watched it several times. She tries to talk to the cop who tells her, quietly, TWICE to get on the sidewalk, and having "accredited journalist" status, she would normally have every expectation of being allowed into areas normally roped off, so she tries to inform him of her status and gain his consent. The cop looks like he is about to address that, but instead, someone off to the side very quickly shouts out" ARREST THE ACCREDITED JOURNALIST! and away she is dragged, still relatively calmly requesting not to be arrested. This and the fact that it was only one instance of over 300 today, lends credence to the idea that excessive force is being used with no reason to it. If you are down there, that's good enough for them. It's much like what happened to the folks that dared to wear anti-war and anti-bush t-shirts to a 4th of July parade where bush took part. The cops had no constitutional ground to stand on, and yet their orders seem to be to arrest first and let the courts decide what will stick later. I fear for all of those present not lucky enough to have been caught on film as they were arrested for what is essentially being on the street while not Republican. I think your geometry may be off. I think you meant to say you did a 360.

ANON@17: Well said! Why do you not have an account here and post often (that we know of)?

Nice link, J9C (the 2nd one. The first could not be resolved for me.) The main problem with paid informants is that they are paid for producing results. These "results" are all too often fabricated, with just enough info to keep interest piqued so as to continue a stream of revenue for the informant, while often being exaggerated or outright false. Once the cops arrive in full force (no pun intended), they are determined not to walk away with egg on their face, and so they do what they can to justify their actions after the fact with whatever they can work with. The media these days goes along with it because it makes good copy and reinforces that the cops are just doing their duty against a few lone "nutjobs" or "anarchists." No need to worry folks. Just cracking down on those smelly hippies and their crazy ways which challenge your wasteful and unconscientious way of life. You can go back to the safe comfortable lie you've been living. Please remember to buy the products of our sponsors.

John Lennon and Yoko Ono were clandestinely spied upon while meeting with members of the "New Left" (an FBI coined phrase) for a number of years, while planning essentially peaceful protests and civil disobedience to stop war (not just Vietnam) and make people aware of the atrocities being performed in our name. Things like the fact that they said from the outset that they would not be a part of any violent or aggressive acts were outright ignored by the FBI, for reasons still undisclosed, because even now, most of the files on John and Yoko from the late 60's - mid 70's remain redacted. (Please read the book Gimmie Some Truth, The John Lennon FBI Files by Jon Weiner for the full story on this and the files themselves, from what was pulled by the ACLU via the Freedom of Information Act.)

Entrapment seems to have been tossed out of the post 911 law enforcement dictionary now that they are using infiltrators to actively incite violence in what would have otherwise been peaceful protest. They are doing their best to discredit us to justify their state-sponsored errorism. This is why it is so important to keep cool these days. Keep a level head and try not to give in to paranoia and the culture of fear, no matter what they do. I truly believe we shall overcome one day, but it may indeed get very dark before the dawn. Channels of open information and discussion like BB are even more crucial to that end in these troubled times. Thanks BB, and thanks to you for reading and keeping yourself informed!

Ok, I agree with that. I apologize.

ANTHONY@110: She would have been a real hit at the Hop. =D

ROSHELLE@111: "Hate filled venom?" I don't really see any of that in the above thread, and in any case, Dems have never received any of that from Republicans now, have they?

I knew a Mountain family that had sons Cliff and Rock, and a daughter, Candy, of course. I kid you not.

ANTHONY@104: Ok, you got me, I took a cheap shot, but it felt pretty good. =D I am the first to say Frank Zappa got too much flack (mostly from conservatives) for naming his kids Moon Unit, Dweezil, Ahmet and Diva, so I guess I wanted to turn the tables a little. At least those were creative names. Bristol and Trigg? Might as well name the kids Curmudgeon and Hamm. (Btw, I wish Zappa had lived to have possibly made a serious presidential bid. RIP FZ.)

HERETIC@128: Until you buy me a tiny video camera, I am doing all I can, personally. Since when did speaking out get construed as constantly whining? Sorry to say, you are sounding a bit like a certain Republican presidential nominee broken record. Whining is a matter of tone. The moderators here are pretty good at pointing it out when it happens. Exercising your free speech should not be underestimated in its power to affect change on a society.

I agree that action should back up the words, and that is why I attend protests, vote, sign petitions, write my senators and congressional reps, participate in civil disobedience and create art and music that helps to promote the changes I'd like to see happen in the world, etc. Telling others to "DO SOMETHING" is essentially whining about the whiners.

Very nice! I like the bit of p-funk they threw in toward the end of the first number. Nice touch. Overall great sound. New Orleans lives in the sounds and soul of its people.

DORK@121: "There have not been any 'innocents' for almost one hundred years."

Where do you get off making a statement like that? I suppose you believe that everyone that died on 9-11 deserved it as well.

@117: I can see now why you are a hero only to dorks.

Now it's all over the news that the 17 year old daughter is 5 months pregnant. They offer this as a "defense" that she couldn't possibly have given birth in April. Let's do the math: April...May... June...July...August...September now. I know those Young Earthers tend to compress time, but it still looks to me like no defense at all. It lends credence to this possibility, in fact, given that: Bristol (What "average mom" names her kids like this?) A) Likes to have pre-marital sex. B) Clearly doesn't use birth control. C) If she had conceived Trigg, (again with the names. Was she overly fond of trigonometry or something?) and her mommy said she couldn't have an abortion and agreed to raise him as her own, but she still wanted to be a mommy herself, wouldn't she be trying again ASAP? and D) Ok, so they are saying that she conceived while recovering from the worst case of mono in recorded history. It sure seems to me like Bristol didn't come down with the "kissing disease" so much as a bad case of the "fucking disease."

Just like with the announcement of Trigg as a Downs Syndrome child, they are acting like this is the happiest news possible: “Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned...” Yeah, she's growing up faster and faster all the time. Wouldn't this be great for us as a nation: "Today, the most beautiful and glorious nation on Earth was discovered to no longer have a viable economy...Good gosh golly gee, ain't that swell?"

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN2944356420080901?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/01/palins-17-year-old-daughter-is-pregnant/

Btw, if it's a girl, they are going to name it Hairbrush, and if a boy, they are going to name it Calculus, as family tradition demands.

I saw a bumper sticker today with the Darwin fish on it that said: "We have the fossils. We win." =D

ARMSRACE@106: "It's a shame that people aren't satisfied to "fight it out in the polls" and feel they must bypass the polls to physically attack people they don't agree with."

It's a shame you are buying the police side of the story. Did you watch the video featured here? Did you read above where the buckets of "urine" were found to be nothing but recycling and a lack of a toilet? If, as the article you linked describes, the police really had operatives inside these "anarchist organizations" (an oxymoron if there ever was one) don't you think they could have showed a valid warrant before detaining people for hours or descending upon innocent kids' households and cuffing them on the ground for interrogation for nearly an hour? I'm sure just about every houshold in America could be found to have something in it that "could be used to cause a disturbance."

From your linked article: "...it's important to keep in mind that when a group of people get together to commit a crime, that agreement can be a crime in itself, and riot is one of those crimes. When you conspire to do that, it's an agreement beforehand to do it, the agreement itself is criminal..." By that definition, the people suggesting violence here in this thread have committed such a crime. Thoughtcrime is surely not far to follow.

We'd better hope the dems have finally gotten around to trying to ensure an election happens this time around...

I treat Wiki as my lawn only when letting the dogs out.

Scrubbing aside. What has she got against polar bears?

"This year, Palin sued the federal government for adding polar bears to the endangered species list, arguing the move would interfere with oil and gas drilling efforts." -Jeremy Funk, Americans United For Change

I can't believe all the posts I am seeing here calling for arming yourselves. You are falling for the intimidation hook line and sinker. As soon as you start stockpiling weapons and ammo, you fit the profile and they know exactly what to do with you. Do you think for a second that your 2nd amendment will protect you in a time of national crisis? Think again: In the aftermath of Katrina, when martial law was imposed, the national guard went door to door confiscating everyone's weapons. That's right, those who did not evacuate had any means of protecting their property from looters removed by force. We cannot fight this fire with fire. Civil disobedience and peaceful protest are the only weapons we have.

We do need to organize and get out in the streets. We need to make our voices heard (especially when the mainstream media has shown itself to be the pacifier of the people, enablers of cover-up, telling people what they want to hear instead of the ugly truth) but above all, we need to keep our cool and use our intelligence and creativity instead of flying off the handle and reaching for a weapon. When you stoop to their level, you become more fodder for the machine. The Hindus have a great saying: You cannot hate anyone into loving. If we want compassion, we must give compassion. We must use our anger as a motivator for action, but it must be non-violent action or we've already lost the struggle.

You see? De-regulation works. The free market always fixes itself. bushco are totally fiscally conservative, serving the public trust and not the elite few. Go back to sleep, America. Vote for this old guy we've decided to prop up, this time. And vote for a woman, because she's a woman. (Don't look into the policies and decisions she's made.) Or stay home and don't vote at all. Everything has been taken care of for you in this best of all possible governments. Look at this flag we're waving. See how we talk tough. Don't think.

HORNCOLOGNE@53: Nice! Thought you'd like to know, though, that you've got a couple of typos in your text. Should be easy to fix.

IANSMITHLV@54: Very nice! The TSAs are really cracking down on those pesky tourists already, across the pond.

MAXXMONDE@44: Brilliant! Let us know where to chip in on printing costs. =D

CHELVIS@39 & 47: I believe using creativity and humor to shine a light on ignorant policies to be the best solution at hand, because I only believe in non-violent protest. Being afraid of bogeymen and shadows is what is not being helpful. In fact it has been quite devastating to millions of lives. This is why we have laws and separation of power. -To prevent witch hunts from trampling on liberty. These times we are in, though unique, are not without precedent, and do not demand that we throw out the rule of law, due process, and habeas corpus. We've created "the terrorists" and give them all their power with such folly. I could go on all day, but can't say it better than this:

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." -Ben Franklin

If our governments want to really catch "the terrorists" then we need to stop being the terrorists.

PERLA@30: "I don't care anymore, people deserve what they get."

Really? People in Gitmo right now that have been held for 6-7 years without trial deserve what they got? People being extradited to foreign gulags and tortured by goons for the CIA deserve what they are getting? If they deserve it, why is due process of law being circumvented to perpetrate these horrible scenarios upon these people? Lives are being ruined at the whim of the government and you don't care anymore? I can't even begin to express my dismay at your statement. Just one more question: When did you ever care, and why did you stop? (Ok, two more questions.) What the hell is wrong with you?

If you somehow meant from that statement that people in the government deserve to be ridiculed for such a lame campaign of outright Orwellianism, then I take it all back and agree with you. As written, it leads me to believe you are indifferent to suspicion and paranoia encouraged by your government which serves no real constructive purpose, and quite a few destructive ones to a "free society." Please tell me I misinterpreted, and do go see Brazil right away.

I can't wait to see the mock ups of these posters. That would be the best protest, as has been done before. Make them look so similar to the original that you might not be able to tell the difference from a distance, and post them far and wide so they actually outnumber the original poster. Cover the original posters with the new one whenever possible. I don't live in the UK, or I'd already be at work on this, but I'd gladly donate to defray the printing costs. Put up a website with your poster(s), accept paypal donations, and link it here. (I'm sure Cory'd feature it, as he has in the past.) This crap is no match for a little clever creativity. In fact, I think it would be fun!

Are you now, or have you ever been a PHOTOGRAPHER? We'll need you to give us a list of all the PHOTOGRAPHERS you know so we can go harass them too. And we'll need you to wear this patch on your arm at all times to we can identify you and watch your every move via CCTV. Vacation you say? Yes, you'll be taking a "vacation" all right. We have this nice little resort in Cuba for you where you can take up the popular sport of waterboarding.

I just hate to see when people tag on top of a cool mural or other spray paint art. When it's just a scribble on top of everything from parking meters to pay phones it's pretty annoying too. If you get creative with it, great. Tag all you like, if you must, but do it on a clean stretch of wall, not someone else's art. Otherwise it says as much as dogs do on walkies. -My 2 cents, adjusted for inflation.

PLOYNTABS@18: Same album, wrong track. Go listen again. =D

Now we know how to sing Take Me Out Of The Ballgame.

Damn. Beat me to it GARRIEB@11. I picked that out too, unmistakably. =D

These guys have never heard of the Residents either, have they?

Dig the "falling george bush" reference toward the end, too. Nice!

For those about to piss...

I'd be cursing too if they made me sit through another rendition of "Gawd Bless Amerika" sung by a stadium full of sweaty beer-swilling baseball fans. Somebody got drunk and disorderly at an event where only the mindless intake of watered-down "beer" can help to assuage the tedium? Gawd forbid!

If marijuana were legalized (Hey, George Washington cultivated it. How's that for something truly American?) then there'd be much less disorderly behavior, and much less of a need to urinate as well (but then again, the stadium would probably be empty, because people on pot would realize what a boring, slow game it is.)

While we're at it, why stop there? Since we've extended our "reverence" past the obligatory national anthem, why don't we enforce your mandatory attention to a few Toby Keith songs? Let's hear that Lee Greenwood song again? No, you can't get up to piss, now we're gonna hear that Charlie Daniels Band song, and we'd better hear you singing over the crowd, or we're gonna report you as a terrorist.

Irony thick enough to use a fork, but use a spoon to get every drop! Yes, God, hurry up and bless the fuck out of America already, fer Christ's sake. This here flag means more than the ideals it was meant to represent, you see (oh, say, can you?)

If God hadn't intended us to urinate at baseball games, he wouldn't have invented the relief pitcher.

I, for one, believe Bigfoot is God.

"There's leak, there's leak,
In the boiler room
The poor, the lame, the blind
Who are the ones that we kept in charge?
Killers, thieves, and lawyers

God's away, God's away,
God's away on Business. Business...

...Goddamn there's always such
A big temptation
To be good, To be good
There's always free cheddar in
A mousetrap, baby
It's a deal, it's a deal
God's away, God's away, God's away
On Business. Business."

-Written by the same guy who wrote "Jesus Gonna Be Here Soon"

I recommend fighting theater with theater. If one of these pretend-cops writes you a ticket, pull out a pad specially made (any print shop can make a pad out of anything you type up. -Something like this perhaps, but with check boxes next to options on why they are a bad pretend-cop) and write them a ticket of your own.

Happy birthday, David! (Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.) =D

Tak: You live alone, I take it?

Hey, are you going to Burning Man?

There is even a smaller, regional one called Flipside (held at a non-conflicting time so you can go to both.)

ANTHONY@11: So that's where skull-head came from (the one Resident that wore a skull instead of an eyeball after one of the masks was stolen.) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/63/The_Residents.jpg

Jim

Nice image Tak. I bid 26 quatlums!

Anthony: Agreed.

This post is really jarring our memory.

"Ill be grazing by your window
Please come pat me on the head
I just want to find out what you're nice to me for
When I look up, don't think I don't know
About all the scabs you dread
Its hard to stomach the gore

I know you don't have the patience
To peel them off no more
In a jar where you believe
All I could do was lick your hand
In a jar the scars are plain to see
I hope somehow you'll know I understand

I'll be grazing by your window
Please come pat me on the head
I just want to find out what you're nice to me for
Then you smile and decide to take me in
cause I look you by your bed
But I can feel it just a little more

I'll watch you fall apart, babe you know it
You know I'm young and stuff, babe don't blow it
Just unscrew the top, yeah
Pick me up now just cant stop

In a jar where you believe
All I could do was lick your hand
In a jar where scars are plain to see
I hope somehow you'll know I understand
Scabs collect beneath your bureau
From the knife wounds you got"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_1A8CBqIgc

"It's the middle of the night
And your mommy & your daddy are sleeping
It's the middle of the night
And your mommy & your daddy are sleeping
SLEEPING
MOM & DAD ARE SLEEPING
SLEEPING IN A JAR...
(The jar is under the bed)"

Yes, the best part is they're new!

Ok, Tak. That was the call. Here's my raise:

"It's hidden far away
But someday I may tell
The tale of metal tangle
When into your world I fell
Without you now I wander soaking
Secretly afraid
cause in your grasp the fears dont last
(and some of them have stayed)

I wheeled around because I
Didnt hear what you had said
And saw you dancing with Elihu
Up on Leemor's bed
And I was foggy rather groggy
You helped me to my car
The binding belt enclosing me
A sample in a jar..."

"We see them after school in a world of their own.
To some it might seem creepy what they do.
The neighbor on the right sat and watched them every night.
I'll bet you'd do the same if they was you."

It is ironic that all of those who arrive at this party seem to value their privacy in not disclosing why they are attending. The owners of the property use security and cops to enforce their privacy. Who enforces ours?

SAM@24: I believe it's meant to be "kick-ass new." Your confusion may be for lack of a hyphen.

HAGBARD: I've never met the Heads or Laurie, but Phil Di Fiore, the guy who shot the documentary of Bernie Worrell (who played with TH on that tour) passed along a demo of my band a few years ago to Tina Weymouth, Chris Franz and their kids. Later, he told me he shot some video of them listening to it and reacting to it positively. I keep hoping he might find that clip someday and send me a copy as he said he would. They interviewed me for that doc, (we opened for Bernie when they were shooting and I got to join his band on stage briefly during their set) but I ended up on the cutting-room floor (understandably, since all the other interviews were with people like Byrne, Bill Laswell, Bootsie Collins, Tina & Chris, etc. and he didn't end up using much footage from the Austin show.) Jerry Harrison joined him for a coupla tunes here on a previous tour. Every time Bernie comes back through town, we hang out.

Boobs is right! TSA boobs, that is. (Thanks BB, for keeping us abreast of this issue!)

So, let me get this straight: Woman is allowed to go through screening without being "padded down" by taking off her bra. Another woman, is asked to get off a flight by airline attendants because of her revealing cleavage. It's looking like a double-D standard to me. Isn't it about time the TSA and all asinine travel policies went tits-up?

"...maybe we can identify them and figure out who AT&T owns in the Democratic party."

You mean, other than those who voted to approve the FISA bill?

COWICIDE: I'll second that. We eagerly await more once you are rested.

I haven't seen Laurie Anderson announce dates down here in Texas yet. I hope she does. I'd love to see her again. Byrne will be here in late Sept. for the Austin City Limits Fest. I've never had the pleasure of seeing Eno in person, but he's always very interesting to hear in interviews etc. Always has such fresh perspectives and interesting ideas. The album he returned to with Bowie (Outside) remains the most interesting thing Bowie's done in recent years (and that was 13 years ago!) Bowie was originally going to co-produce Devo's first album with Eno, but never could squeeze in the time. I saw Byrne twice with the Talking Heads (Speaking in Tongues tour, which Jonathan Demme immortalized well) and once performing The Knee Plays (another Twyla Tharp dance production, with the backdrop of Robert Wilson's paintings.) All amazing shows.

HAGBARD: Yeah, I have heard that version, and other proto-versions of cuts on that album that never made release. They came out in a bootleg vinyl I used to have, and still have a cassette of around here somewhere. The woman is a lot creepier than the priest they eventually use in the final version.

HOHUM: A good friend of mine made the same observation, but as I said I am still reserving overall judgment 'til I listen to it more. I have always been more in Eno's court than Byrne's, but I like Eno's pop and melody sensibilities, and the aforementioned Cale collaboration, so we'll see. I like it that they are working together again regardless. Too bad Eno is not touring the material with Byrne, that I have heard.

I have loved the 'Bush Of Ghosts album since the day it came out. I didn't like that fact that it lost a track when it made the transition from vinyl to CD, (for either lack of clearance from one of the samples used, or from some sort of religious protest. The track was called Qua'Ran. Does anyone recall?) but they made up for that by adding one of the out-take tracks to subsequent releases, and later in the Anniversary Edition with several more out-takes. If you find the 'Bush Of Ghosts album grating, you are likely to like the new one.

Now that I have heard it from downloading it today (yes, everything did happen today, except having the hard copy in my hands) I can agree with ARTBOT@4 that it has a lot more pop sensibility, and resemblance to the Cale collaboration of Eno's than any previous collaboration by David & Brian, with the possible exception of the Talking Heads albums. I'm not saying it resembles those albums. Actually, it is probably closer to some of the songs on Naked, (which Eno didn't have anything to do with) and Byrne's latter day canon than anything he's done with Eno. I knew to expect something new, but I wasn't quite expecting this. I'm not saying I don't like it. Much of it i can say I already do like. But I am reserving an overall opinion until I have let it sink in further with repeated listens. So far I can say that if you are expecting anything like 'Bush of Ghosts or The Catherine Wheel, you might be disappointed, so equip yourself with the correct expectational strategy.

(Was it so wrong to hope for a gush of boasts, or the ghost of bush's?)

OK, cool. I'll buy that (if you'll forgive the pun.) =D

DVT's solo works are fabulous: These Things Happen, Safety In Numbers, Strange Cargo and a couple others. Wonder why he stopped recording after '91?

I love these guys, and have really been looking forward to this album.

Correct me if I'm wrong, however, but it doesn't look like they offer "a free, DRM-free stream of the whole disc" as quoted above. It looks like they offer one cut for free download and the whole album download for $8.99. I'm not saying this is a bad thing; only that the post would seem to be misleading. Folks looking for an "In Rainbows" or "The Slip" type offering based on that language might be a bit disappointed. True, you get access to the full download if you buy the deluxe or hard CD editions, but I would hardly call this free. If we want to have the whole thing now, we must download it and wait until Nov 30th for the hard copy.

Many more Austinites were more like this...

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39367

One of those recently to return was from here in Austin. Austin Activist Deported From China

Worf is gonna be pissed when he comes back from DS9...

It is amazing what is being invented to counter "knee jerk reactions" in the absence of real facts. There are no American flags on the girls' clothing (it looks to me like Space Chimps, but I guess that's close enough for some.) There is no tractor parked in the front yard. The only tractor I saw was a wind-vane type of art-installation thing that appeared to be in the actual garden 'round the back. There is some heavy farm-type equipment that appears to be next-door, but it was way too industrial to be used on their little backyard garden, which in no way seems to have been professionally plowed.

From the article and TV piece, this all started from one single complaint. Not a bunch of concerned citizens up in arms about a local nuisance. Neighbors were interviewed and included in the broadcast, one of which says she goes by there every day and has never seen any traffic stopped.

The father in the interview isn't trying to seek a loophole like the government or corporate America always do. He is simply trying to work out some sort of compromise, and the mayor, who is making all kinds of leaps of conjecture, won't even take or return his calls.

Two blocks away (if that is indeed how close the farmer's market is) may be a little far for two little girls to be hauling produce regularly, and the farmer's market may be extracting fees that make it prohibitive for such a micro-operation. Did you consider that? Did you see how cheaply this produce is priced? Why don't you get some facts before posting your own "knee jerk reaction" based upon tenuous assumptions trying to defend a lame-ass bureaucratic cog of a mayor and his autocratic actions.

Alright! There are just too many snails in this thread. You're leavin' slime trails everywhere. Cut it out!

Perhaps the guy had just been listening to too much Rage Against The Machine...

Sorry, there was no math in my coronation exam... Thanks for the reminder of what the heck you were referring to. Holy 23. Get it now. Next time give me the secret handshake first. =D

Nice message. Nice execution. Murals like this should be outside and accessible, additionally.

I, for one, welcome our food delivery overlords.

ROB@115: No one but the mayor suggested chickens might ever involved in the kids' produce farm. Sounds like Turkey In The Straw man to me.

HAGBARD: I'm not sure where this fixation with fives you have is coming from, but OK, if you say so.

Btw, your government told you 2+2=5 and you believed them!

Correction: (If anyone cares at this point...) I have just had a fresh listen to the Floyd recording I referenced earlier. It had been over a year since I heard it last, and now I can definatively say that my memory was more correct on my first post about it. Yes, I'm correcting my correction! There is pre-recorded foley on the live rendition of the Atom Heart Mother Suite, as only Floyd can pull off so well, but not canned orchestrations and choir, (in fact they are missing entirely.) Sorry to cause any confusion, even if it was just my own.

While I'm here, I'd like to go ahead and post my faves for the advanced class of entheogenic voyager, for all who give a shit at this point. If it was not obvious, I recommend a good set of headphones for all of this, as well as the above.

Robert Hunter: "The Flight Of The Marie Helena" -Hands down the best piece of hypnocracy ever written. Play it for your peak. Therapy indeed!

Gong: The Gong Trilogy: Radio Gnome Invisible, Angel's Egg, & YOU. Play these three albums back to back from the start of your trip. -Pure rocketfuel!

The aformentioned Miles Davis Bitches Brew, for the aformentioned reason. (What can I say? I like feeling like I am a flower and Miles Davis is a 200 foot tall sorcerer mercilessly pummeling fields of my brethren with his angry magic horn.)

The first Jerry Garcia solo album, Garcia. Another one for the desert island. A real gem. Play this one right after the Robert Hunter, slightly post-peak.

Frank Zappa: We're Only In It For The Money. Zappa's answer to Sgt. Pepper's and Are You Experienced, released the same year as both: '67. Features the most bizarre and psychedelic instrumental of all time: The Chrome Plated Megaphone of Destiny. All from the mind of a man who didn't do drugs. (He was drugs!) Play this just after the Garcia, and before Bitches Brew, and giggle like hell.

The Grateful Dead: Infrared Roses. Ok, I know it's a lot of Dead here, but they really were the best at this. This album was entirely composed improvisationally before an audience, during sections of Dead shows known as Space because they dropped all musical preconceptions and rules in order to find what lay beyond the chaos. (-A higher order perhaps.) The very definition of out there.

Ok, between the Gong Trilogy and the Hunter (I guess it would have helped if I had put these in order, but that would have been too linear.) I recommend the Paul Kantner / Jefferson Starship album (bear with me, this is before they wanked out) Blows Against The Empire. It makes a few predictions that sound quaint (from 1970) but if taken metaphorically, you might find they did become true to some extent. Truly the culmination of the Airplane's dream as they finally hit orbit.

After Bitches Brew, I recommend the mellower stuff that came from those same sessions, which were released as Miles's Big Fun. Same players, soaking in sitar and tabla for your mind to relax into and breathe.

Lastly, I heartily recommend, right as you begin to drift into sleep, an album by Edgar Froese of Tangerine Dream called Epsilon In Malaysian Pale. Melodious synths to soothe your brain and ease you into unconsciousness.

Trust me, with a good environment and this regimen, you will have interstellar adventures hitherto untold. Happy mutating!

Previously I thought not posting on this thread was the best comment I could make, given the original subject matter, but now I see we are reaching for the goal of the longest BB thread in history. Well, I'm here to do my part. That said, I guess I'll go away now. Bye!

That should have been health and safety. They are risking far more than candybars...

Man, this thread is more redacted than anything squeezed out through the Freedom Of Information Act...

Ya know, we really should include every single civil and human rights violation that has ever happened here in this thread, right? We've got time... Let's line them all up here so we can compare their dick sizes. Godwin was a pussy. Let's really get started!

HOLDSTEIN: You've really got it all figured out, haven't you? "Fuck Bono! Fuck the Hippies!" You've got yourself apathetically paralyzed into a perfect state of non-action. Brilliant! Quick to criticize anyone with the balls to actually do something instead of writing superlong diatribes, simply because you believe there should be other priorities? Dude! What are you doing right now to try to change the world for the better? Are you risking your heath and safety for your beliefs? The Tibetan protestors are heroes! It's easy to disparage them. It makes it easier for you to lie in your drunken cesspool, slowly sinking.

Yes, there are things that can and should be done all over the world to solve all the various injustices. Can we not work toward them together and applaud them all? That would be a... I dare say it... wonderful thing! I don't see Bono pissing in your cornflakes. He's done a hell of a lot more to try to right the world's wrongs than you have, son. I suppose you think John Lennon never should have staged protests for peace, or there never should have been a Martin Luther King march to the Washington Monument to deliver the "I Have A Dream" speech. Bob Dylan and Joan Baez played there at that event. Hippies!

The bottom line is that we all have our talents and ways we can work towards making the world a better place. Some people write songs to help shine a spotlight on injustices they perceive. Some people actually go to other countries and try to use their voices (Vox) to broker peace between factions that can't see eye to eye, or provide much needed food and medicine. (Are we to believe you are currently teaching Africans to fish?) Some people bravely try to poke holes in the fabric of BS being pulled over horrible abuses being shovelled out in the Olympic Spirit Of Unity(tm). You seem like you are an intelligent person, but your overall thrust is pathetic. Is seeming cool so important to you that you've forgotten what people have sacrificed, and what has been gained by these people that you take for granted?

ADAM WEISS@107: "How busy can city council of the city of Clayton, CA, pop. 10,000 really be?"

Still too busy to give a shit, apparently...

Oh great! Just to show it's never been about safety... Airline complains about the TSA incompetently breaking their planes and they launch their own investigation, which, coincidentally, finds that it is the airline's fault: Cha-ching! $175,000 fine. Thank you! Takuan's Godwinning is sadly becoming more and more justified...

(Btw, how are those steam-punk anti-TSA pissed-off unicorn badges coming?)

DAVID GUERRERO@83: "somehow an immigrant doesn't pull on the same heartstrings, does it?'

No one else here has deigned to refer to an immigrant as an "it."

I think your "nobody would care if they were immigrants" straw man has been thoroughly shown to not be the issue you'd like to make it. Let's move on.

Many people here have hit the nail on the head. Micro businesses need to be exempt from zoning laws because they pose no real harm to the neighborhood or society. In fact, I'll bet they can be seen as a great benefit to most of the folks in their area. When you are talking about a kids' venture, it is especially so: They were learning about cultivating wholesome goods from the earth, harvesting them, and participating in our economy. This is the core of the American dream, which has always applied especially to immigrants. Until now.

JACK: I have always loved that Mr. Show sketch. Thanks for linking it here.

Somebody's got to take a stand... er... nevermind...

TRR@71 (not 69:) "It does seem like a bad idea to bring lots of liquor and a DJ into an _art gallery_"

Ever been to an art opening?

Ok, thanks. Please post back here when / if it ever gets fixed.

This may seem off-thread, but I can't seem to find a suitable place to ask this question: What are the specifications for making a photo able to be posted in one's profile here? I have tried mimicking the dimensions and format of existing bio photos to no avail. What's the secret? Thanks!

(I saw a similar question posed also by NELSON C@823, but I have yet to see an answer.)

JAHKNOW@104: Bwahahahahahaha!

HAGBARD@39: I have not, though a big fan of Moebius, if the film is an adaptation of his series by the same name (Blueberry.) A little search on the imdb revealed this, at your prompting: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0276830/ confirming that it would appear to be! How did this slip past me? Eddie Izzard and Colm Meaney in character roles? Ok, this is going on my Netflix queue immediately. Thanks!

KAOSMONKEY@42-43: Yeah, if I had to choose one of all the huge amount of material he released, Kind Of Blue is my desert island Miles to be sure. Coltrane deserves a lot of the credit too. Your description of BBrew made me laugh resoundingly! (It's funny 'cause it's true...)

ROB@90: He managed to borrow a flashlight to complete his final inspection and had to buy a new one subsequently. So far they haven't confiscated that one yet.

One of the biggest ironies here, as I posted on another TSA related thread here previously, is the following:

One of my best friends is a commercial pilot. He still always has to go through the TSA's every day and they have stolen items from him. Recently they openly "confiscated" one of those big multiple d-battery flashlights from his carry-on luggage because he was told it could be used as a weapon. He needed it to regularly inspect his plane before take-off to ensure its safety, since his company would not provide one. So the real guy who is trained to look after the safety of any plane he flies with a final inspection is denied his tools to do so by the same organization that let this fool loose to run afoul of all protocols in the vain attempt to do his job for him.

Let's hope it doesn't get crazier than this, folks...

CHORSKE@36: I think you meant to argue with me, not yourself. CHRS@55 stole my rebuttal. Btw, I hope you don't get tasered the next time you are smoking dope at the lab...

ROSS@52: Shouldn't they be tasering each other then? (And if so, where does one register to get his & hers tasers as a gift?)

Final analysis: Clearly the officers present were just pissed off they didn't get offered any cake.

WINGO@30: Live Evil is the shit! The Cellar Door Sessions box is LE expanded. I highly recommend it if you like that side of Miles (but certainly not for a first time trip unless thoroughly steeped in Miles.)

MOONRACER23@31: Good point. Yes, there can certainly be issues to overcome; and they will make you stronger for your perseverance, but as for a whole trip being "bad", that all seems to depend on whether you allow yourself to spiral into your fears. If you overcame your fears, I'd say that could not have been overall bad.

QUERENT@32: I was with you on the Huxley reference. "The Doors of Perception" should obviously be on the reading list too. As for Altered States: That's like saying Peter Pan is a Fairy tale: It is indeed a work of fiction. I was merely referencing the visual imagery used in the film to depict the issues that came up when the protagonist has his first psychedelic experience. It's not easy to describe such things to those who have not experienced them personally, so I went for an accessible reference. Sorry that your suspension of disbelief was broken such that you could not enjoy that classic.

TULSATV@33: Yes, we should add that to the list: Try not to get tasered by anyone while tripping!

And if it doesn't go without saying, don't mix other drugs that went unmentioned with your LSD experience either. Bad Juju.

JEZRAEL@36: Good Leary recommendation! It's not just you. Transcendental meditation can also get one there. There are perhaps an infinite number of ways to reach the same place. The ones that are not as readily accessible as ingesting something leave you much more grounded and in control. The trade off is that they require much more time and discipline, but are certainly worth it.

REGIS: Multitasking is one thing. Completely dividing your attention to the road or your driving is another. No one is taking away your precious stories, so beat that straw man elsewhere. Let me explain so perhaps you'll begin to get the obvious (if not for you, for others on the road you endanger with whatever you are doing that seems to you to pass for thinking.)

Audio = OK

Hands free = OK

Anything that competes continually for your visual attention and / or hands (which we assume you use for driving) = Not OK.

It's that whole idea that getting where you're going is more important than how entertained you are in transit. I get that you want your audio books or whatever to stay awake. Good. Awake is a start. Alert is required by law. -Good laws that save people's lives.

Ok, wasn't that simple? Try not to think too hard about it, just tuck those nuggets of wisdom away. There you go. Feel better now?

If not, you can go back to hosting "Who Wants To Be An Asphault-smear?" Regis.

STEVE STAIR: And I have been rear-ended by a semi-tanker-truck in what ended up being a five-car pileup on a totally stopped freeway. Idiot truck drivers are nothing new either.

Yeah, the roads are much safer these days. It seems that every time I see someone pull a total bonehead maneuver, they are holding a phone to their head or doing something else that totally divides their attention.

True story: One day on the way to work on a two-lane highway with a divided median, I come up behind this guy totally swerving across both lanes intermittently. I'm thinkin' it's a little early for this guy to be drunk. When he finally sticks to one lane, I move up to pass him quickly, and I glance over to see that he was shaving in his rear view mirror with an electric razor! Obviously he had his priorities strait. I guess everybody he nearly killed on the road that day had a close shave too. *drum hit*

Wait, aren't the bride and groom supposed to take the cake, if any of it is left over?

Ok, kidding aside, BB editors, please ignore the cranks. Civil rights violations and rampant taserings belong here just as much as the unicorns. The fact that someone is publicizing such abuses of power in this way is a wonderful thing.

Well, at least someone made for damn sure that this wedding would be memorable (and even more ridiculously expensive!) All the inaccuracies in the article noted here aside, why didn't we get a better account of the events that led to the couple being tasered the 2nd time, a couple days later? If the groom pushed the bride down in front of the cops, as purported in that incident, it was probably in trying to keep her from assaulting a police officer. If you'd just been tasered at your wedding reception a couple of days before and had to spend your wedding night apart in a cell, don't you think you'd a) have a lot of steam still to blow off about it and b) not be deliberately trying to provoke the cops further? I know we don't have all of the facts here, but what we do know surely points more to a taser-happy police force than an unruly couple of Bonnie and Clydes.